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Post by CampWhippet on Dec 12, 2005 13:32:35 GMT -5
This guy says things I've heard from a couple people here, but he says it to newspapers so let's debate it.
We'll start with this PR oldie "Why would anyone racing a dog for their livelihood try to mistreat the dog?" Carney asked rhetorically. "It's nothing but lies."
I say BECAUSE THEY CAN! It happens everyday. In fact, I say it is happening RIGHT NOW on tracks, farms and training facilities here in the US. If it wasn't I couldn' point out people like Victor Rangel in Iowa. Who people(Douglas Hammond and Patrick Barnett) testified that Mr Rangel "grabbed the dog by the collar, pulling it 4 feet into the air, and then threw the dog into its cage and struck it twice with a closed fist." and "...he saw Rangel repeatedly whip the greyhound, which was"standing still, taking the beating and scared."
More? How about Mitchell Haber in Palm Beach. He left his dogs unattended in the Florida heat for 5 hours. In August! When he came back to the compound 2 were dead and one was having convulsions. Did he try and save it? Heck no he cut off the dogs' ears and buried them.
And who was the guy last year that put two greyhounds in the same pen? I remember one was muzzled the other was not muzzled and when the trainer realized the one had been mauled do you think he got vet care? No way man. He took the hose to the injured dog and stuffed him in another crate. Would you be surprised to hear the injured dog was left alone to die? I wasn't surprised at all. And yes, this "trainer" is still in the business.
Carney uses another tricky comment: "If anyone is abusing the dogs, then why hasn't the MSPCA come to the track in the last five, 10 or 25 years to find out what's going on," Carney continued. "We have no secrets here." See he also uses that garbage line "if no one is there to see it it doesn't happen."
I wish it was that easy. All of the world's problems could be solved if we'd all just get a good pair of blinders. Maybe the NGA has some extras they could offer for sale.
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Post by CampWhippet on Dec 12, 2005 13:42:49 GMT -5
Oh yea - Don't forget Jesse Burgess and his trip to Mexico that killed a few dogs.. maybe he should learn to count and not stuff 35 hounds into a trailer built for 20.
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Post by jettcricket on Dec 12, 2005 13:46:15 GMT -5
...I remember reading about these incidents that you posted. Horrible, horrible and horrible. I remember reading about the dogs left out in heat and how the breeder, I believe, it was the breeder, but I could be wrong told the guilty party that, "Hey, accidents happen". And that he'd be giving him more dogs as soon as they became available. That's like leaving your baby in your car on a hot day. That was just careless and inexcusable. Those poor babies....and the incident with Rangel. Why didn't Hammond and Barnett try and stop him? To me they are just as guilty witnessing something like that and doing nothing to help that poor innocent pup. Oh man just getting a visual of that is so upsetting. Creep.
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Post by hounddog on Dec 12, 2005 14:34:58 GMT -5
This guy says things I've heard from a couple people here, but he says it to newspapers so let's debate it. We'll start with this PR oldie "Why would anyone racing a dog for their livelihood try to mistreat the dog?" Carney asked rhetorically. "It's nothing but lies." I contend that is exactly the reason for abuse. The fact that they earn their livlihood from the dogs and that profit is hard to come by for many in this business creates situations for abuse. When a dog proves that it will not be a profitable racer or has past it's prime it becomes a liability, not a money producing asset. Most people in business want to get rid of their liabilities and certainly don't want to sink any more money in carrying them. The documented years of abuse does not lead me to believe that this industry has undergone a benevolent transformation. I know there are people who have cared for their dogs and paid the expenses to do so but I believe that the industry is still full of those that don't. |
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Post by dad2paisley on Dec 12, 2005 14:59:08 GMT -5
I agree.
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Post by twogreys on Dec 12, 2005 14:59:24 GMT -5
Wow, powerful posts. The whole situation is sad.
It's not just the major abuse that is terrible but the small ones too. Both my dogs suffered. Heidi has a huge scar on her back leg that looks like her whole leg was ripped open. I'll post picutres later. Penny suffered a broken toe and was never vetted for it. She stayed on the farm until she was 18 months old. It had fully healed (improperly) by the time our vet got her. We were lucky and blessed to get her.
I think there is abuse every day. How can it be policed? What can be done?
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Post by robinw on Dec 12, 2005 15:10:54 GMT -5
This guy says things I've heard from a couple people here, but he says it to newspapers so let's debate it. And who was the guy last year that put two greyhounds in the same pen? I remember one was muzzled the other was not muzzled and when the trainer realized the one had been mauled do you think he got vet care? No way man. He took the hose to the injured dog and stuffed him in another crate. Would you be surprised to hear the injured dog was left alone to die? I wasn't surprised at all. And yes, this "trainer" is still in the business. Carney uses another tricky comment: "If anyone is abusing the dogs, then why hasn't the MSPCA come to the track in the last five, 10 or 25 years to find out what's going on," Carney continued. "We have no secrets here." See he also uses that garbage line "if no one is there to see it it doesn't happen." I wish it was that easy. All of the world's problems could be solved if we'd all just get a good pair of blinders. Maybe the NGA has some extras they could offer for sale. I remember the comments about two dogs in the same pen. I remember the comment by a very vocal PR person who will remain unnamed. His comment was something to the efect of "Everybody makes mistakes, haven't you?". That is not a direct quote but is the jist of what he said. I really hope tha tattitude isn't prevelent. |
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Post by dvsgryhnd on Dec 12, 2005 22:24:13 GMT -5
Now why would anyone debate you on this? All those things you mentioned did happen. And they are horrible. And l agree it is probably happening right now as we speak. However it is also happening in the pet world. Abuse happens more in homes across the country than on any farm or track. Now I know people on this list will say it's not the same so I'll leave you to your battles. I have to go take care of the discards from the pet world. Maybe someday I'll see some of you fighting for all animals as much as you fight against racing. We could use you at the shelters.
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Post by CampWhippet on Dec 13, 2005 8:36:45 GMT -5
.....l agree it is probably happening right now as we speak. Of course it is. Yet according to the PR mouthpieces it doesn't happen. Maybe they get lost up in all their lies and forget where truth ends and their lies begin? Maybe they are just full of :'( and don't really worry about speaking the truth anymore. What does that have to do with the inherent abuse in the race industry? Are you throwing that out there to justify the actions of your racing peers? I'm already there doing that. I also take them home to make more room at the shelter for another dog. Do you have 4 of your own dogs plus another 4 fosters living in YOUR house right now? I do. |
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Post by CampWhippet on Dec 13, 2005 8:44:48 GMT -5
[quote author=robinw board=discussion thread=1134412355 post=1134418254[/quote]
I remember the comments about two dogs in the same pen. I remember the comment by a very vocal PR person who will remain unnamed. His comment was something to the efect of "Everybody makes mistakes, haven't you?". That is not a direct quote but is the jist of what he said. I really hope tha tattitude isn't prevelent.[/quote]
Both JCSPerson and Dampland(Ashegun Kennels) sent me emails asking me what it was like to be perfect. They said it was an accident so I had to ask them "Which part? Putting two dogs into a crate or failing to get vet care after the dog was mauled?"
The reply was to the effect that fights happen so often one just hoses off the dog and hope it lives. They didn't seem to care this dog died.
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Post by hounddog on Dec 13, 2005 8:49:10 GMT -5
Now why would anyone debate you on this? I guess it comes up for debate because it is used often as an argument by the vocal defenders of the sport. In a recent published diatribe by one of the industries most ardent pontificators the same argument was used. As told by one that claims to belong to the most oppressed minority in the country: "In a strictly regulated, state-run gaming enterprise like greyhound racing, it is simply unreasonable to think that the same people who spend hundreds of thousands, and even millions of dollars on the breeding, raising and acquisition of Racing Greyhounds, would deliberately or ignorantly subject them to the mythological abuses, or risks, such as those alleged in the literature and in the press releases of politically motivated hate-groups like Grey2K." "It simply defies logic, as it defies financial feasibility, or more simply, fiscal sanity" The only thread of truth in those comments is that greyhound racing is indeed a business. It is a "for-profit" endeavor with financial risks and realities. The carcasses of nearly 3000 greyhounds dug up in Alabama with a bullet in their head was not a "mythological abuse" Nor were the tail wagging obedient greyhounds unloaded off the trucks in the recent HBO special that moments later were unceremoniously thrown into the dumpster, a "mythological abuse." No, these were a result of the financial realities of greyhound racing and getting liabilities off of the books. What defies logic is that with the legacy of abuse in this industry, the writer could think that this weak argument could be accepted by anyone. |
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Post by CampWhippet on Dec 13, 2005 9:03:08 GMT -5
....The carcasses of nearly 3000 greyhounds dug up in Alabama with a bullet in their head...... The lucky ones got the bullet in the head. Some were found to have their lower jaw shot off so they starved to death while others were shot in the neck so suffered quite a while before dying. |
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Post by robinw on Dec 13, 2005 9:50:06 GMT -5
Now why would anyone debate you on this? All those things you mentioned did happen. And they are horrible. And l agree it is probably happening right now as we speak. However it is also happening in the pet world. Abuse happens more in homes across the country than on any farm or track. Now I know people on this list will say it's not the same so I'll leave you to your battles. I have to go take care of the discards from the pet world. Maybe someday I'll see some of you fighting for all animals as much as you fight against racing. We could use you at the shelters. I'm sorry, I think this post was really unfair. We all do what we can for all animals. We just happen to have retired racing greyhounds, which have the unique situation of having been bred in large quanities to support a segment of the entertainment industry. Have you ever heard the term "choosing your battles"? |
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Post by dad2paisley on Dec 13, 2005 9:52:39 GMT -5
This is all very sad and I am very upset about what happened but how about all the shelter dogs and cats that are put down, the stray animals living on the streets. All the animals that are used as experiments and testing subjects, this really gets me MAD. Pet owners mistreating their pets,leaving them out in the cold and heat.
We have a really big problem with this in the world and something has to be done. We need to come up solutions and not just complain about it. What would be a good plan of action?
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Post by jettcricket on Dec 13, 2005 10:18:50 GMT -5
[quote author=dvsgryhnd board=discussion thread=1134412355 post=1134444253 What does that have to do with the inherent abuse in the race industry? Are you throwing that out there to justify the actions of your racing peers? I agree with you on this one campwhippet....why must they constantly throw that up in our faces?! Yes, we know it exists and it is very sad and tragic - a life is a life, but were talking about racing greyhounds folks! Our first dog that me and my husband owned was an 11 year old Belguim Shepard Mix that was relinquished at the shelter by an irresponsible couple who had personel problems and unfortunately Moira was the least of there problems. She was slated to be euthanized by the end of the week. Moira was the best thing that happened to us. After she passed from suffering a stroke we knew that we wanted to rescue, yes rescue, I know the PR people hate that term, another animal and so began our interest in greyhounds. It's almost like the PR people are trying to justify what goes on in the racing industry. What other defense can they use?! I, too, have helped shelter animals....I give to the North Shore Animal League, my local shelter, I also help Animal Birth Control as well as sponsoring a pit bull this past year. I also have 5 cats that are all rescues. So, yes, I care about them too! |
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